YGO Custom Cards

Custom Cards Zone => Custom Cards Discussion => Topic started by: StWilliam on November 22, 2017, 08:22:39 am

Title: YGOCC Mechanics & Design Club
Post by: StWilliam on November 22, 2017, 08:22:39 am
Hello there, and welcome to the YGOCC Mechanics & Design Club; where our goal is to discuss, share and learn more about the applications of general game mechanics and card design.

To put it simply, think of this thread as a book club for custom card making. Each week we will have a different mechanic or aspect of design as the focus; during that week, members will be encouraged to present single cards, sets or even archetypes, that utilize this design element or mechanic. Remember, that the goal of it all is to explore the more intricate depths and applications of seemingly basic components of the game. For example: During Week 1, we might be covering 'field removal' and then for week 2 we could shift over to searching or tribute summoning or even something obscure, like excavating. Keep in mind that these mechanics can be used in tandem with each other, meaning that excavation can be used as a tool to remove cards on the field or search, and vice versa.

Every two weeks, a poll will be posted with 3 different possible design elements we can discuss. The winner of this poll will be the focus for the upcoming week, and the runner-up shall be the focus of the following week; the remaining topic will be including on the next poll.

It is my hope that the community will get involved, not only because it will make for a more fun experience, but so that we can improve our understanding and grow in our ability to create custom cards. Please be kind and courteous to those who choose to express their ideas in this thread and/or post their cards here. Thank you all.
Title: Re: YGOCC Mechanics & Design Club
Post by: Chadook on November 23, 2017, 02:55:41 pm
First thing to think of, is hand advantage, without it, you cannot do either option after it, unless sack something ironically.
Title: Re: YGOCC Mechanics & Design Club
Post by: StWilliam on November 23, 2017, 03:06:33 pm
Generally speaking, yeah you kinda need hand advantage in order to have access to swarming and/or removal (most of the time). However, in an isolated incident (or even speaking in terms of generic cards) this isn't necessarily true.
Title: Re: YGOCC Mechanics & Design Club
Post by: Kinny on November 23, 2017, 03:26:57 pm
Not quite true- I won't go super-into-detail because I wanna save the long-form writing for when we decide on a topic, but Galaxy Cyclone and Trickstar Reincarnation have examples of performing Backrow Removal and Swarming without touching the hand.

EDIT: ...Alas, ninja'd. >o<'
Title: Re: YGOCC Mechanics & Design Club
Post by: StWilliam on November 23, 2017, 04:13:25 pm
EDIT: ...Alas, ninja'd. >o<'
Hehehe XD
Title: Re: YGOCC Mechanics & Design Club
Post by: StWilliam on November 29, 2017, 06:19:49 am
So, to get the conversation going, I wanted to talk about how we can view generating hand advantage (and the hand in general) from a different perspective.

Before we can delve into interesting ways to generate hand advantage, I'd like to first point out the two primary ways in which cards are added to the hand, by drawing or by searching. Consider this the oxygen of generating advantage; most strategies will be comprised of this, just like most things on earth are comprised of oxygen, yet we can end up with quite a variety of play-styles, themes and gimmicks by combining other elements that we find.

So, what are some examples of these other elements that we could combine with drawing/searching to create a mechanic that can perhaps serve as the basis of an archetype? Off the top of my head I'd say banishing, discarding, excavation and milling. If we're including drawing/searching, I like to classify these six elements as "Priority I" effects. Meaning, that for any new archetype, theme or set of cards, the creator will traditionally begin with these effects, as they will incorporate the engine (most likely). A few examples of this are cards such as Sylvan Hermitree, Pot of Duality and Minerva, the Exalted Lightsworn.

I'll stop here, before I ramble and wind up with 750+ words...

Anyone else care to add to the discussion? Also feel free to post cards here that fit the theme of the week (hand advantage).
Title: Re: YGOCC Mechanics & Design Club
Post by: Kinny on November 29, 2017, 07:32:46 pm
While drawing vs searching is an important part of hand advantage, I feel there's one other trait we should also keep in mind- Hard Advantage vs Soft Advantage! ^_^
For anyone who might be unfamiliar with these concepts, Hard Advantage is when an effect truly pluses; The number of cards between your hand and field is greater than they were before you activated it. Soft Advantage is everything else; The quality of the cards between your hand and field has increased. As an example, a little graph I prepared:
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2z5t377.png)

"Dig" and "Fetch" can essentially be read as "Draw" and "Search"; I used somewhat more generic words so cards which gain hand advantage from the GY or like aren't accidentally excluded.

The cards I used on the graph are possibly the most boring entries for each category, to make explaining easy. For some more complex examples, "Graceful Charity" is both a +1 in Hard card advantage, as well as Digging 2 additional cards, and gives GY setup. The draw being first is also a useful contribution to its power (and banned status), as being able to choose the "worst 2" cards for your situation after looking at your random draws is very good. Dark World Dealings is a -1, but is similar in Digging 1 and bringing Soft Advantage.


But now, flipping the discussion totally on its head, I'll mention that this doesn't only apply to _positive_ advantage.
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2va115g.png)

Had to use a monster for the top-right corner, since even early-days YGO was smart enough to not make a Spell/Trap with "Look at your opponent's hand, choose 2 cards from it, and <get rid of them>.". XD
As a big note, there are much less effects that minus your opponent's hand than those that plus your own. And those that do, do so to a much lesser degree than those that plus. This is largely because it's funner for both you and your opponent if you're both increasing your options, as compared to if you're decreasing eachother's options. Trims decision trees, makes the skill of the victim less relevant, etcetera. That's not to say negative hand advantage cards should never exist- "Nekroz of Trishula" and "Trickstar Reincarnation" are both good examples of cards in this category which are (on their own merits) balanced, if powerful, and the prevalence of Hand Traps can make this kind of effect very desirable. It's often wise to treat any effect as a +1 more than it would normally be. "More Mind Crush, less Delinquent Duo" is a good rule of thumb here. One effect I've tinkered with a a bit is "You can reveal 1 random card in your opponent's hand, then you can put that card on the bottom of their deck and make your opponent draw 1 card.", which would be close to the bottom of the totem pole, but due to being fairly low-impact in terms of general gain, it can be easily slapped onto almost anything with little worry of it getting out of hand, so it might be a good starting point if you want to play with this idea?


As far as where hand advantage can be gained from, the main examples would be Deck, GY, Banished, Field, and Face-up Extra, and where you're gaining from can drastically change how an effect is used. But I'll touch on that later, I'm kinda tired from rambling. '^_^
Title: Re: YGOCC Mechanics & Design Club
Post by: Auramram on November 29, 2017, 08:50:49 pm
Controlling the cards that you will draw is another way of increasing the quality of your hand (generating soft advantage). like dark Magical circle. as opposed to simply losing as many cards as you are adding to your hand.

I also like the idea of converting field advantage into hand advantage (Valk). You save yourself from overextending and get a brand new hand to make new plays with again (be it this or next turn). 🤗

It's one of the ways to get hard hand advantage without leading to an overwhelming board state, since normally as Chad says you will convert the hand adv into swarming but it's ok cause you traded field adv for it
Title: Re: YGOCC Mechanics & Design Club
Post by: StWilliam on December 03, 2017, 08:23:22 am
Very insightful post by Kinny. I wanted to shift the direction of the conversation towards the different applications of a large hand, or perhaps effects that play off of gaining advantage, etc.; I planned on presenting a Poker themed archetype, but couldn’t find enough art for it to be as big as I wanted. Perhaps I will cut it down for the sake of sharing.